WHERE IS EVERYONE!?

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The Dark Something or other
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Re: WHERE IS EVERYONE!?

Post by The Dark Something or other » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:31 am

Anyway, the gist:

You strike me as like a person who's read the Bible, is therefore knowledgeable in it, but doesn't take the time to understand it or bits of it within context or from the stand point of the mental picture of those who believe in it; you need to really live within the system, which you can do without believing in it, in order to get the point. So, as far as I'm concerned, Epicurus' philosophy doesn't lead to societal collapse through neglect or whatever. The whole point is that Epicurus wasn't a Cyrenaic. Rather, his whole thing was choosing pains in order to avoid falling into worse pains. He furthermore said "friendship dances round the world announcing to us that we must wake up to blessedness". And as his mentor, Democritus (of the atom fame), succinctly put it, "Labour becomes lighter by custom" and "voluntary labours make involuntary labours easier to bear". Epicurus spoke much about sacrificing yourself for your friends. And he spoke extensively of avoiding problems with your enemies and not getting into a beef with them. Indeed, he said, "Do not turn away the request of an enemy in need, even though he is no better than a dog". Epicurus effectively invented the social contract theory. The guy was highly attuned to the notion that our individual happiness and serenity is inherently linked to wider society. Indeed, Epicurus and other prominent Epicureans, such as Metrodorus, Diogenes of Oenoanda, and Lucretius were deeply concerned with social justice and were prominent social campaigners. It's hard to understand the significance of this, but unlike many other Greek Schools, Epicurus refused to take people's property and money into collective pool as he said this showed a lack of trust and trust was the basis of friendship, he admitted women as complete equals (which led to scandalous rumours that his school was nothing but a sex club, I'm not joking), and slaves were fine, too. The thing is, most people -- now, but especially then -- had short, brutish lives, with no power or control. Life was really shit. Most people could do nothing. His advice was largely practical for them. He was deeply concerned by the plight of the worse off. However, for philosophers and politicians, people who could make a difference, Epicureanism was all about building a healthy society as that was the only way, they said, of achieving individual happiness. Straw man representations of Epicureanism, by people such as LIBERTARIAN philosopher Novick, are based in nothing.

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The Dark Something or other
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Re: WHERE IS EVERYONE!?

Post by The Dark Something or other » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:37 am

Some Libertarians, especially American ones, talk out of their arse. So that answers the point about your friends haha. Also, the Libertarian Party ISN'T Libertarianism, it is but one form of it. And furthermore, there is Right Libertarianism, Left Libertarianism, Centrist, and everything in between; you seem to be implying that Libertarian is ONLY Night Watchman State / Minarchism. This is but one strand of the spectrum. Furthermore, many people who have SOME Libber traits call themselves Libertarians when they ain't. Hence all Palin's supporters. Hence the confusion that many people have.

As for speed limits, there is a good case that, at least on Motor Ways, it would be safer and more cost efficient to do away with the speed limit. But that's really a peripheral point.

Regarding your point that a "little control" is needed: yes, but no. If you transgress against another, you need to smashed HARDCORE; imprisoned, fined, ruined -- well, in proportion with what you've done. My question to you: when do you think it is right for "a little control" to be applied to people?

Me personally, out of all the strands of (right) Libertarianism, I am not an adherent of the dominant American kinds: Objectivism, Minarchism, etc. I am a kind of neo Classical Liberal / Geolibertarian, with hints of Paleolibertarianism. Not all Libertarians want to replace the Govt with rule by corporation! LOL!

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Reyazul
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Re: WHERE IS EVERYONE!?

Post by Reyazul » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:57 pm

That was far quicker than I was expecting, and is going to take a novel-length response to do it all justice. Will have to be a few days from now at least as I won't have time on my workdays. Quite good points though, especially on Epicurus. But until I get around to responding....SIMMER, fool!
Welsh "I hope you catch genital warts you slut!!!!"
Dark "Now we know that Steph swallows, not spits."
Cars "I wouldn't do *anything*. I wouldn't rape someone or kill a bear."

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The Dark Something or other
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Re: WHERE IS EVERYONE!?

Post by The Dark Something or other » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:49 pm

Reyazul wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:57 pm
That was far quicker than I was expecting
You're not the only one haha!

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